Southern CA crimes with similar Zodiac MO

[morf13 Profile Website]

I dont know exactly what it will do for the case, if anything. It is something I like to do, and get the opinions of others here. If you don't think it is important, you dont have to look into these southern CA crimes, and can devote more time to the bulk of evidence already available in the case, its just my opinion that the available stuff wont lead anywhere either. It has been looked at by multiple police agencies, FBI, and God knows how many amateur Z researchers all over the world. If a clue has not been found yet to Z's true ID, I just dont think it will be found. I hope I am wrong. If Z ever is caught, of course we can all go back to the clues and evidence and say "oh....so that's why..now I get it".
I think Z is an unsub, and is not one of the suspects publicly named and available to research. Therefore, I am looking in areas not already picked thru by investigators

[Zsearcher Profile]

OK, as long as I now know that you don't know for sure that this will get anywhere, and it is something you just like to do. Well, I can't fault you for your effort. I believe we need to keep this in the proper context, as non-Zodiac crimes that may hold clues that may be similar to Zodiac that may point to Zodiac someday if it can be established somehow, if possible.

Morf there are over 1100 pages of FBI files. I suggested we index them so that we can look for things easier. Don't you think this is a good idea? I think this is a worthwhile endeavor.

BTW you still didn't answer the question. What are the steps now that you found these crimes, that we need to take to do something useful with the information?

Zs

[morf13 Profile Website]

I believe we need to keep this in the proper context, as non-Zodiac crimes that may hold clues that may be similar to Zodiac that may point to Zodiac someday if it can be established somehow, if possible.
Morf there are over 1100 pages of FBI files. I suggested we index them so that we can look for things easier. Don't you think this is a good idea? I think this is a worthwhile endeavor.
BTW you still didn't answer the question. What are the steps now that you found these crimes, that we need to take to do something useful with the information?
Zs

First point- I would say that some of these crimes are similar to some of the suspected or confirmed Zodiac crimes. Are they all Zodiac? Probably not. Could some of them be? I believe so, since it is probable that Z was down there. I agree, these should go on a back burner, and maybe one day, more can come to light that could link them with Z

Second Point- About these "steps". I dont have a plan or steps to go any further. It may not be possible to go further, but if Z's ID is ever found, and he is linked to southern CA, then maybe he could be linked to some of the crimes down there.

[Zsearcher Profile]

Excellent. Now I know your reasoning. Well I think that's the only value they have, for hindsight someday, so in that respect I commend your efforts. Now let's find Zodiac so we can see if he did any of these other crimes too. Zs

[Mr. A Profile]

I believe we need to keep this in the proper context, as non-Zodiac crimes that may hold clues that may be similar to Zodiac that may point to Zodiac someday if it can be established somehow, if possible.
Morf there are over 1100 pages of FBI files. I suggested we index them so that we can look for things easier. Don't you think this is a good idea? I think this is a worthwhile endeavor.
BTW you still didn't answer the question. What are the steps now that you found these crimes, that we need to take to do something useful with the information?
Zs

First point- I would say that some of these crimes are similar to some of the suspected or confirmed Zodiac crimes. Are they all Zodiac? Probably not. Could some of them be? I believe so, since it is probable that Z was down there. I agree, these should go on a back burner, and maybe one day, more can come to light that could link them with Z

Second Point- About these "steps". I dont have a plan or steps to go any further. It may not be possible to go further, but if Z's ID is ever found, and he is linked to southern CA, then maybe he could be linked to some of the crimes down there.

So you're just skimming the surface, pointlessly, with no follow through intended?

I just don't see how taking up to dozens of seperate cases that have no real provable connection to Zodiac (with no real MO connection in most cases) and outlining how they range from minutes to hours away from where your POI lived/worked/stopped off for a beer one night would have any benefit if there's no follow through. Seems like busy work to me.

[morf13 Profile Website]

I believe we need to keep this in the proper context, as non-Zodiac crimes that may hold clues that may be similar to Zodiac that may point to Zodiac someday if it can be established somehow, if possible.
Morf there are over 1100 pages of FBI files. I suggested we index them so that we can look for things easier. Don't you think this is a good idea? I think this is a worthwhile endeavor.
BTW you still didn't answer the question. What are the steps now that you found these crimes, that we need to take to do something useful with the information?
Zs

First point- I would say that some of these crimes are similar to some of the suspected or confirmed Zodiac crimes. Are they all Zodiac? Probably not. Could some of them be? I believe so, since it is probable that Z was down there. I agree, these should go on a back burner, and maybe one day, more can come to light that could link them with Z

Second Point- About these "steps". I dont have a plan or steps to go any further. It may not be possible to go further, but if Z's ID is ever found, and he is linked to southern CA, then maybe he could be linked to some of the crimes down there.

So you're just skimming the surface, pointlessly, with no follow through intended?

I just don't see how taking up to dozens of seperate cases that have no real provable connection to Zodiac (with no real MO connection in most cases) and outlining how they range from minutes to hours away from where your POI lived/worked/stopped off for a beer one night would have any benefit if there's no follow through. Seems like busy work to me.

Again, Brixel...oops, I mean Mr. A...just pointing out crimes with similar Zodiac MO or suspected Zodiac MO in southern CA, since Z was in southern CA before. Actually, some of these cases have files on the net, reports, and newspaper articles, etc

[Gavrilo Princip Profile]

At Berryessa, I dont know why Z wore a mask. Maybe as some freakish thrill he got. Maybe he was afraid he would be seen by a boater, or some other people. I think he fully intended to kill the couple, and he did killl Cecilia. This was evidenced by the phone call afterwards.

He wore a hood probably because he realized he could be interrupted by a pedestrian or boater at any time during the course of his crime, at which point he would have to walk away...he couldn't shoot them in front of witnesses, as it would alert more people in the area, and those who saw him would report it to the police immediately, making his getaway less comfortable for him.

That shows a high degree of care in planning that I don't think the Bates killer or John's abductor had. Or maybe he made the hood for a different reason, but this explanation is one in which there is a practical reason to do it.

If he thought of that, and had previously engaged in disabling vehicles, I think he would have just either slashed the inside tires (away from the road, so no other motorists would notice), or just disabled it a la Bates, it was a Volkswagen, not the same make as Bates' Beetle, but I would imagine not that different.

Strange. I wonder if the police even checked if Hartnell's car was operational...maybe it wasn't, maybe Z did disable it. Hrm.

[para_owl Profile YIM]

At Berryessa, I dont know why Z wore a mask. Maybe as some freakish thrill he got. Maybe he was afraid he would be seen by a boater, or some other people. I think he fully intended to kill the couple, and he did killl Cecilia. This was evidenced by the phone call afterwards.

He wore a hood probably because he realized he could be interrupted by a pedestrian or boater at any time during the course of his crime, at which point he would have to walk away...he couldn't shoot them in front of witnesses, as it would alert more people in the area, and those who saw him would report it to the police immediately, making his getaway less comfortable for him.

That shows a high degree of care in planning that I don't think the Bates killer or John's abductor had. Or maybe he made the hood for a different reason, but this explanation is one in which there is a practical reason to do it.

If he thought of that, and had previously engaged in disabling vehicles, I think he would have just either slashed the inside tires (away from the road, so no other motorists would notice), or just disabled it a la Bates, it was a Volkswagen, not the same make as Bates' Beetle, but I would imagine not that different.

Strange. I wonder if the police even checked if Hartnell's car was operational...maybe it wasn't, maybe Z did disable it. Hrm.

I'm not sure I understand the hood idea here. I think it could cause problems for him too. If he wears the hood the whole time I'd think someone would notice and then would have to flee the scene. I suppose that he could have been to similar scenes where he aborted the hunt while not being reported. It all depends on how well he handled his surveillance/counter-surveillance of his victims/any number of other people in the area. It would be interesting if there were any reports of suspicious behavior of any hooded individuals at that time and in that area, but I'm sure we would be debating the accuracy of them if they were made known.

--Will.

[Mr. A Profile]

So you're just skimming the surface, pointlessly, with no follow through intended?

I just don't see how taking up to dozens of seperate cases that have no real provable connection to Zodiac (with no real MO connection in most cases) and outlining how they range from minutes to hours away from where your POI lived/worked/stopped off for a beer one night would have any benefit if there's no follow through. Seems like busy work to me.

Again, Brixel...oops, I mean Mr. A...just pointing out crimes with similar Zodiac MO or suspected Zodiac MO in southern CA, since Z was in southern CA before. Actually, some of these cases have files on the net, reports, and newspaper articles, etc

Morf13, try to rein-in the paranoia.

In the majority of instances, you're pointing out cases that have similar MO to "suspected Zodiac MO" from parts of the case that have never been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt to be Zodiac.

In the cases you posted, I see lots of stranglings, some sexual assault killings, sniper fire?

Where are the similarities to authentic Zodiac MO--LHR, BRS, PH?

[Gavrilo Princip Profile]

I'm not sure I understand the hood idea here. I think it could cause problems for him too. If he wears the hood the whole time I'd think someone would notice and then would have to flee the scene. I suppose that he could have been to similar scenes where he aborted the hunt while not being reported. It all depends on how well he handled his surveillance/counter-surveillance of his victims/any number of other people in the area. It would be interesting if there were any reports of suspicious behavior of any hooded individuals at that time and in that area, but I'm sure we would be debating the accuracy of them if they were made known.

--Will.

Will, I think Zodiac realized that attacking two people in a public park in broad daylight was a risky proposition. If he was interrupted by other parkgoers he may have had to flee the scene. With the hood there'd be no description of him. Berryessa was not an assault-type attack, and required as much silence as possible. Thus the knife instead of the pistol, which would have been quicker, but noisy and attention-drawing. So the hood protects his identity in the event he has to flee prior to actually attempting to kill the couple. My point is, if he's thought of this, and he was accustomed to disabling vehicles, I would expect him to disable Hartnell's VW. If it was something he could do easily, was part of his prior MO, then it would prevent the victims from trying to follow him. I think he would have done it.

Just a thought.