Southern CA crimes with similar Zodiac MO

[morf13 Profile Website]

I am putting the list of Southern CA crimes with similar MO to Zodiac, here. If we are to believe that Zodiac was in Riverside area as the Killer and/or letter writer in the Bates case, why would we not suspect him in other southern CA cases with similar MO?
While Z didnt take credit for any of these crimes, he did tell the police things like "good luck tring to figure out who i killed" (as his murder total rose on each letter he sent, "me 37, SFPD 0"). He never claimed any responsibility for Bates either until after it was published by Avery. Some would say, "well he didnt kill Bates, he just wants the credit". My response is, how come handwriting experts say that some of the Bates letters are Zodiac,as well as the desktop poem? Are we to believe that Z was down in southern CA writing letters and carving on desks, but that none of these other Southern CA murders could be his work? Z said "you are only finding the easy ones, there are a hell of alot more down there"

Rose Tashman- Got a flat tire, and pulled off the road. Later found strangled.
Body found around Beverly Dr. & Mulholland Dr area, approximately 20 minutes from my POI


Cindy Lee Mellin- Abducted after her car had a "flat tire". A "good samaritan" was seen helping her with it. The car was found still up on the jack. They discovered the tire had been purposely stabbed.Her body was never found.
She vanished from Buenaventura shopping center in Ventura, about 1 hour 10 minutes from my POI
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Ernestine Frances Terello- Pulled over to tend to a "flat tire". Police theorize that a "good samaritan" had abducted her after offering to help her. Her body was later found about 6 miles away.
She vanished
(My POI had been arrested for a drunk driving incident, 3 years earlier within a mile or two of where she was abducted from) The spot she was abducted from was about 35 minutes from my POI)
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Anne Marie Robinson- Vanished in January 1972 after leaving her job at Pacific Telephone Company located at S. Vermont Ave. in Gardena, CA. Her car was found 2 blocks away with a “flat tire”. She was never seen again.
Her employer was located only 18 minutes from the address used by my POI in 1969.







Robin Ann Graham- Vanished after her car ran out of gas near near Hollywood. Witnesses saw her talking to a man who apparently "stopped to help" Her body was never found
Vanished near Vermont Ave in L.A. about 20 minutes from my POI


Mona Jean Gollegos/ Gallegos- Her disabled car was found on the San Bernadino Freeway near Santa Anita Ave in El Monte. Her body was later found near Riverside.
The location where her car was found in 35-40 minutes from my POI
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Sandra Garcia & John Franklin Hood- Both found savagely stabbed on a beach
90 minutes from my POI



Kathleen La Chance- Found tied, stabbed, and possibly raped on a beach near Santa Monica.
Killed 15 minutes from my POI




John Swindle & Joyce Swindle- The newlyweds were shot as they strolled on a San Diego beach. They were shot from a distance, and then the shooter shot them both up close. A box of "valentines candy" was found with them. Police dont know if it belonged to them, or was left by their killer as a callingg card of some kind.
Killed 2 hours from my POI


Gaul & Sharp- Found in an alley in L.A. , repeatedly stabbed. A note, typed in all caps (like the Bates confession letter) was found in her belongings, from somebody claiming to be the ZODIAC KILLER. ( My POI used an address only minutes from here)
These 2 victims had been seen on Alvarado St in L.A. (25 minutes from my POI) their bodies were found Between Arapahoe st & Magnolia (19-22 minutes from my POI)They had been living on S. Bonnie Brae St.(20-25 min from my POI)

[metaltomato]

Sorry if I'm a little muddled on my Zodiac Case grasp, but I am still suffering from my indoctrination by Penn and Greysmith. I was pretty well convinced that the Bates murder was without a doubt Zodiac crime.

Even if the Bates killing has somehow since been determined to not have been the work of Zodiac, I still firmly believe that a definition of Zodiac's MO must include not only his crime scene methodology but also his need to discuss his deed via printed communication.

Although I agree with your analysis that the attacks you have listed have something in the way of the Zodiacs methodology in the way the act was committed, and admit that the killer may have acted at some time before or after the "known" Zodiac cases, I find it difficult to pin any other murders on him that do not conform to my notion of the Zodiac MO, ie; Some sort of accompaniment of the deed by letter or note.

I'm still a little unclear as to why the Bates murder has been "un-linked" to the zodiac. Is it on disputed handwriting analysis?

BTW, what was the date of the Gaul and Sharp attack? Have you seen the note?

[morf13 Profile Website]

Sorry if I'm a little muddled on my Zodiac Case grasp, but I am still suffering from my indoctrination by Penn and Greysmith. I was pretty well convinced that the Bates murder was without a doubt Zodiac crime.

Even if the Bates killing has somehow since been determined to not have been the work of Zodiac, I still firmly believe that a definition of Zodiac's MO must include not only his crime scene methodology but also his need to discuss his deed via printed communication.

Although I agree with your analysis that the attacks you have listed have something in the way of the Zodiacs methodology in the way the act was committed, and admit that the killer may have acted at some time before or after the "known" Zodiac cases, I find it difficult to pin any other murders on him that do not conform to my notion of the Zodiac MO, ie; Some sort of accompaniment of the deed by letter or note.

I'm still a little unclear as to why the Bates murder has been "un-linked" to the zodiac. Is it on disputed handwriting analysis?

BTW, what was the date of the Gaul and Sharp attack? Have you seen the note?

The date of the Gaul/Sharp attack was 11/21/69 in L.A. both were found savagely stabbed and slashed in an alley (like Bates was in an alley) In Gaul's room, there was a note to Gaul from somebody claiming to be Zodiac. The note was NOT entered in to evidence at the time, and when it turned up later, its authenticity was questioned. But it was in ALL-CAPS(like the Bates letter), and the writer had used the word TO instead of TOO (like in the Bates confession letter) Also it was signed with a small "Z" (like the Bates had to die letter). Since Riverside was only an hour away from L.A., i think it could be related. There was a piece of evidence found with the bodies of Gaul & Sharp, that is a clue, and that clue has a SPECIAL relevance in relation to my POI. At this time, I can not share that to keep it from making ID of my POI more likely. But if you look around on the net, you may find what clue i am talking about.

The Bates murder was not proven to be the work of Zodiac, but many people believe he was responsible. Some of the letters mailed in the Bates case, were confirmed to have been written by Zodiac by handwriting experts, as was the desktop poem found at the college she went to.

Riverside PD, refuses to say Zodiac killed Bates, and instead they cling to the same suspect they have stuck to for 40+ years, even though a DNA test apparently ruled him out.

So the mystery remains

Ill post the Bates "confession" letter first followed by the GAUL Zodiac letter

[morf13 Profile Website]

Looking thru some old cold cases with MO similar to Zodiac, and I wanted to see if anyone had any opinions on this case? This one sounds alot like Cheri Jo Bates.

Sunny Lyn Dagowitz, murdered in December, 1970.
Stabbed repeatedly and savagely as she walked to her car in the parking garage at the UCLA campus. No sign of rape or robbery. Witnesses who got a look at the attacker described him as being 5 ft 7 (Z was on the shorter side possibly), 155 lbs (maybe too light to be Z) and age 20-23 (Maybe too young to be Z)

But the case sounds similar to Bates, and take a look at the sketch of the suspect, looks alot like the Z sketch. Any opinions?

[morf13 Profile Website]

Suspect sketch compared to Z sketch

[Gavrilo Princip Profile]

If you accept that Bates and Johns were Zodiac, but as far as I can see none of these crimes really have any known Zodiac traits. No writing on cars, no letters to the press, were any bound?

Here's something I never really thought about before: Zodiac clearly acknowledged the possibility of something going horribly pear-shaped at Lake Berryessa (why wear the hood if you knew 100% the victims would die?), yet with ample opportunity, he made no effort to disable Hartnell's car. Something a killer accustomed to that MO would certainly have thought of. What if two boats, with 4 or 5 people suddenly appeared on the Lake while Z was accosting the victims? Now he has to get away, and Hartnell's car is functional.

I think Bates' killer may have stabbed the tires or otherwise disabled the vehicle before heading down to do the deed.

It's an interesting thought anyway. Maybe you have another, independent serial killer on your hands, (unsurprisingly) I don't think it's Zodiac.

[morf13 Profile Website]

I think the disabling of the car was a ploy that Zodiac, or any other killer, would most likely use on lone females. Most men would know how to fix a flat, check wires, etc.

At Berryessa, I dont know why Z wore a mask. Maybe as some freakish thrill he got. Maybe he was afraid he would be seen by a boater, or some other people. I think he fully intended to kill the couple, and he did killl Cecilia. This was evidenced by the phone call afterwards.

Some of these southern CA cases fit some known or suspected Zodiac patterns. Zodiac, according to handwriting experts was in fact in Southern CA. (Bates letters and desktop poem) Z later admitted such (unless he was lying). If Z wasnt lying when he said "there are a hell of alot more down there", then it may be worth looking at some of these crimes with similar MO. For example, the Van Nuys 1967 articles about attacks i posted were very much like the Johns case in particular.

[Zsearcher Profile]

Morf, this is a serious question.

Can you explan step by step how this is going to help the Zodiac case?

I want to hear your plan, because if I need to read constantly about all these other cases, while I'm trying to read about the Zodiac case I'd like to know what your plan is in regards to this information. Do you have a plan to find out if these are Zodiac?

Please don't take this the wrong way. I just want to know your motivation for this. What do you plan to accomplish by uncovering and discussing all these other cases?

It's a serious question, not a dig at you.

When Zodiac says that there are a hell of alot more down there, that to me isn't enough to make me go down there to look for all the others. If he was lying then you just wasted all your time. Do you want to do all that work based on the word of a madman?

Zs

[morf13 Profile Website]

ZS, to answer your question in the shortest, most concise way, I will say this:

The more possible victims that may be tied to Zodiac, then the more possibility that there are more clues out there to find, more of a trail, maybe more witnesses, police reports,newspaper articles, etc.

I think it is likely that the Zodiac case will not be solved regardless.It has been 40 years, witnesses have died, or forgotten stuff. Evidence may be lost or deteriorated. Its just my opinion that the known Zodiac victims, and suspects, have been gone over repeatedly for 40 years at nauseum, from every angle imaginable. I personally find the "unknown" elements in the Zodiac case more interesting. Clues may be out there yet to find

[Zsearcher Profile]

I've heard that from you before Morf. Now what I was asking is what steps would you or someone else take in order to make this a worthwhile endeavor? We have a similar crime in a similar place. Now what? Do you think the police will investigate these as possible Zodiac crimes? If you don't think so then what? The Zodiac case is special for one reason. We have tons and tons of evidence to look at, and we have no suspect. That's why people are interested in and think they can solve this case. I personally think that there is something in this evidence that will help us find Zodiac. Now for your endeavor, what makes you think it will amount to anything? All the things you mentioned are police matters. What will posting this on a Zodiac amateur message board do? We don't have police reports, FBI files, etc, on any of these crimes. We have that for the Zodiac crimes. Zs