The Fingerprints

[Zabagliona Profile]

....Occam's Razor.... "perfessor"....Occam's Razor...

Ummmm....dude.....you might also wanna read this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monothematic_delusion

[doranchak Profile Website]

Somebody else also detected his delusion. Or maybe she's in on the "hoax", too!

Be aware people of St. Louis, Mo Tommy “Jonq” as he calls himself, is his double personality where he lives out his fantasy world. For all you CREDITORS Thomas Horan will rent from you and disappear in the night owing you rent. He works for Temporary Companies for a reason……can’t run out on your bill when you work for a REAL corporation Ask a sleep by numbers company manager to run his name, he bought a bed in Iowa and never paid for it or so he claims, he lives a lie so you never know when he is lying or if he even knows the difference is anymore. His mother was a brilliant woman, she was also an alcoholic, and was bipolar schizophrenic, to which has more than noticeably been passed down to him, he feels it all a matter of mind over matter, if he thinks he isn’t mentally ill he won’t be. LMAO Wouldn’t it be nice if were that easy. Be very careful around this man, I have known him my whole life, he is manipulative, vindictive, & he will be-friend you to get what he can suck out of you for his needs and then drop you like a bad habit. He owes a mutual friend of ours quite a bit of money and as to here my friend tell it, its the opposite way around…seeing a pattern, here he lives in a twisted little world that suits his needs and his only. Our mutual friend said he never expected to get it back when he helped him out, He says the same as I do, he will never change, he see’s us as all being unstable, instead of the other way around.

I have recorded conversation of this man’s ramblings and my husband, friends & my psychiatrist has listened, and he said its ramblings of a bipolar schizophrenia, with Narcissistic personality disorder, & other things, he has let other Dr’s listen and this man can be dangerous the longer he goes without treatment. So if you know him… congratulations he is your friend now and no longer mine, I don’t need any more chaos in my life. I like it boring as it is now.

Will post again in a couple days………..until then………….BE CAREFUL ST. LOUIS, MO (kind of another movie reference ending lmao)

(source)

[LIVE55 Profile]

Before asking Members here to prove what PaulStine's murder
has to do with the Zodiac Case....
how about YOU explain away the peskylittle detail of
the piece of BLOODY SHIRT contained in the Z letter?

Surely You are not sugesting SFPD is in on this 'hoax' ?

[Princein Profile]

Here's what I don't get. How is it that after years of fruitless searching for a handwriting match all it took was looking for a Zodiac Hoax instead of a Zodiac Killer? How could that possibly narrow down the search in any meaningful or useful way?

Everything else in your post is just a rehash of what you said before, but when discussing Z's mo you go to great lengths to make the four attacks seem distinct.

1. The ruthlessly efficient executioner who left no survivors on Lake Herman Road.

It's important to note Z almost lost control of the situation and had to fire five rounds into Betty Lou Jensen who ran.

He also shot David Faraday in the head, not unlike Paul Stine.

2. The sloppy, indecisive amateur who failed to kill Mike Mageau twice in two minutes.

He walked up to the car with a high powered flashlight and fired a gun point blank at two people he then walked away and came back to finish the job when Mageau showed signs of life. True he may have entered the parking lot and left and came back again, but once he went in for the kill he was ruthless and precise. Pure luck kept Mageau alive that night.

3. The totally unrelated psycho who put on a "Zodiac" costume and poked Bryan Hartnell in the back with his homemade "Zodiac" knife. BTW, the difference between a knife and a gun is the difference between honeymoon sex and internet sex.

Obviously this might have been something new to Z whose hands were shaking from nervousness as he tied Bryan Hartnell's hands. It should also be noted he once again failed to complete his task, leaving one person alive.

Then there is the business of him writing on the car door in the hand writing from the letters connecting the stabbing to the last two attacks in no uncertain terms. But you probably think this was the work of the hoaxsters.

The junkie whose worn out, hair-trigger 5-dollar pawnshop "gun" went off in his hand like a cheap New Year's eve noisemaker when Paul Stine breathed funny. Period.

I don't know about it being a hair trigger, but it was definitely a 9mm gun that was deliberately put to Paul Stine's head and fired. I also don't know where you get the murderer being a junkie from, unless you have a suspect for Paul Stine's murder?

My thoughts on Paul Stine are this is where Z really screwed up. It's unprovable at this time, but I am willing to bet he didn't count on there being that much blood. He probably thought he could just pull the trigger and walk away.

So the question is when we look at the four attacks does a consistent picture emerge? The answer, in my opinion, is yes. We have a lone individual who probably was an amateur at killing humans, but could be resourceful and even creative when the situation called for it. He made a lot of mistakes in his very short career and the last one almost got him caught.

Also if you look at the attacks you can see a clear escalation of behavior as he became increasingly disorganized and sloppy with each attack. There is also a consistent pattern of the intervals between attacks shortening:

Lake Herman Road
six months
Blue Rock Springs
3 months
Lake Baryessa
2 weeks!
San Fransisco

So we have 2 conclusions either:

1. It was the work of an unidentified, lone male serial killer with a consistent pattern of behavior

2. It was a series of unrelated murders connected by a group of hoaxsters. Who you allude may have pulled a little "stunt" with the Paul Stine murder.

Occam's Razor indeed.

[traveller1st Profile]

He walked up to the car with a high powered flashlight and fired a gun point blank at two people he then walked away and came back to finish the job when Mageau showed signs of life. True he may have entered the parking lot and left and came back again, but once he went in for the kill he was ruthless and precise. Pure luck kept Mageau alive that night.

I would like to add to this the work of the emergency services and the doctors. Something which is out of the control of any killer who leaves the scene as soon as possible after committing the act.

He didn't seem that bothered that a victim had survived. Certainly not enough to effect his MO. If that had been the case there would have been an attempt to rectify this at Berryessa. There wasn't as it happened again. He seemed more concerned with his costume and knife approach.

He did what he considered to be enough and that was it. The phone call to the police after Berryessa shows this "I want to report a murder, no a double murder". I think he assumes that Bryan Hartnell is already dead (Bryan was pretending to be as per his own statement) by the time he leaves and that, considering Cecelia was female and received more stab wounds would almost certainly die as well. He was nearly right. The important thing here is that it's consistent with doing what he deems to be enough and then leaving. He doesn't check if they are dead. Even after BRS that part of his MO doesn't change.

EDITED to add more ramblings :)

He made a lot of mistakes in his very short career and the last one almost got him caught.

With good reason I believe. This is what he probably kicked himself for afterwards. He messed with his own MO too much.

LHR - scouted the road prior to the attack/ picked his victims/ committed the act/ left

Possible sightings prior to the attack. None after.

BRS - scouted the area/ picked his victims/ committed the act / left

Possible sightings prior to the attack (possibly by the victims themselves). None after.

LB - scouted the area prior to the attack/ picked his victims/ committed the act/ left

Possible sightings prior to the attack. None after (that I know of).

STINE - most likely scouted the area and planned the route and type of victim (taxi)/ committed the act/ didn't leave

Don't know if he was seen before hand. Witnesses after for the first time including the police.

What was different - he didn't leave. He faffed around with the victim and his shirt, collected trophies and as a result was seen by witnesses during this time and ran into the police around the corner resulting in a composite being produced and nearly being caught on the night. I would also add leaving prints to that. If you're gonna mess up might as well do it properly.

Afterwards no more verifiable killings.

'I will no longer announce ...' no I bet he wouldn't especially if he was aware of his own growing sloppiness. I would speculate that he did want to keep killing but I think that night scared him way more than he would admit and if he was to continue he couldn't afford it to be as Zodiac. His response to the police was to refute everything they were saying about him as lies. Specifically taking the time to attempt to deal with the issue of his appearance and as to whether he'd left prints.

[Gindodawg Profile]

Before asking Members here to prove what PaulStine's murder
has to do with the Zodiac Case....
how about YOU explain away the peskylittle detail of
the piece of BLOODY SHIRT contained in the Z letter?

Surely You are not sugesting SFPD is in on this 'hoax' ?

Actually Live, my understanding of his theory is that at least 4 PDs and 4 coroners are included in this hoax with Gyke as the creative puppet master. It would be very helpful if he would present his entire theory. However, I don't believe this will happen as he only seems to be interested in pontificating and baiting others into pointless circular arguements.

[smithy Profile]

All good stuff, these recent posts. Just a couple of things, if I may:

Obviously this might have been something new to Z whose hands were shaking from nervousness as he tied Bryan Hartnell's hands.

Or shaking with excitement, as grisly as that sounds, sorry.

I am willing to bet he didn't count on there being that much blood. He probably thought he could just pull the trigger and walk away.

I'd agree that's a possibility. He shot David F. with a .22 after all, and may have expected the 9mm to produce a more contained effect, too.

Re: the length of time he stayed at crime scenes, I'd tend to agree that he appears to have been bolder in respect to the period of time spent in each area, consistent with increased levels of confidence, 'proof gathering' (since the letters weren't enough to prove 'it was him' from the outset - and they still aren't it would seem) and, perhaps, his increased perception of himself as "invincible" until the near-miss of capture at the Stine scene.
That would be consistent with looking at the incidents as "serial" and as escalating, too.
JMO.

[para_owl Profile YIM]

Before asking Members here to prove what PaulStine's murder
has to do with the Zodiac Case....
how about YOU explain away the peskylittle detail of
the piece of BLOODY SHIRT contained in the Z letter?

Surely You are not sugesting SFPD is in on this 'hoax' ?

Actually Live, my understanding of his theory is that at least 4 PDs and 4 coroners are included in this hoax with Gyke as the creative puppet master. It would be very helpful if he would present his entire theory. However, I don't believe this will happen as he only seems to be interested in pontificating and baiting others into pointless circular arguements.

Well put. He's not even addressing the minor criticisms. I wish people would find some other way to get their fifteen minutes of fame. On the plus side, he didn't for the obvious bait like ALA or Unabomber connection.

--Will.