Labyrinth13

[metaltomato]

Anyone know of the book Labyrinth13: True Tales of the Occult, Crime & Conspiracy? Is it worth buying.

They also have a website. It seems to be very Penn-istic, however, aside from the goofy graphix, seems to be "reputable" in it's presentation of it's take. http://labyrinth13.com/Main.htm

[morf13 Profile Website]

Its a pretty neat site. If you havent had the chance to read about the murder of Betsy Aardsma, check it out here:
http://labyrinth13.com/OtherWorks_BetsyAardsma.htm

Her case has some eerie similarities to that of Cheri Jo Bates. Aardsma was murdered at the Penn state campus library in Nov 1969. Not outside in the parking lot, but INSIDE, while it was open, and there were people in the building. It took place in a dark secluded section. It was a motiveless crime, and no real suspects were found. She was wearing a red dress, so naturally there were bound to be some comparisons to Cheri Jo Bates

[metaltomato]

Im definitely thinking of getting the book.

[Curt Rowlett Profile]

Anyone know of the book Labyrinth13: True Tales of the Occult, Crime & Conspiracy? Is it worth buying.

They also have a website. It seems to be very Penn-istic, however, aside from the goofy graphix, seems to be "reputable" in it's presentation of it's take. http://labyrinth13.com/Main.htm

Yes, I know of the book, as I am its author.

I think that it is worth reading and I can assure you that it is indeed reputable! (In fact, many of the same Zodiac researchers who are members of this board either contributed to my research or are cited as sources for the chapter I wrote on the Zodiac murders, including M. Butterfield).

I provide citations for all sources that I used and include most of my interview notes for the people that I spoke with on the various topics that I covered in the book.

As for being "Penn-istic," well, I'm not sure exactly what that means, but I can assure you that, while I admit to being intrigued by the Radian Theory, I do not hold with any of the rest of Penn's theories about the Zodiac murders. (And I'm sorry that you didn't like the graphics!)

Curt Rowlett

[morf13 Profile Website]

Curt, the Labyrinth13 site is yours too? I love the Betsy Aardsma case on your site. I have looked into that case, and there are some cool paralells between her deat hand Cheri Jo Bates. The fact that she was killed in the library, she was wearing a red dress, and the fact the campus received an anonymous letter years later regarding her murder.

I love the sound effects on the site-SPOOKY!

Kudos on a great site, and I urge everyone to take a look!

[metaltomato]

Anyone know of the book Labyrinth13: True Tales of the Occult, Crime & Conspiracy? Is it worth buying.

They also have a website. It seems to be very Penn-istic, however, aside from the goofy graphix, seems to be "reputable" in it's presentation of it's take. http://labyrinth13.com/Main.htm

Yes, I know of the book, as I am its author.

I think that it is worth reading and I can assure you that it is indeed reputable! (In fact, many of the same Zodiac researchers who are members of this board either contributed to my research or are cited as sources for the chapter I wrote on the Zodiac murders, including M. Butterfield).

I provide citations for all sources that I used and include most of my interview notes for the people that I spoke with on the various topics that I covered in the book.

As for being "Penn-istic," well, I'm not sure exactly what that means, but I can assure you that, while I admit to being intrigued by the Radian Theory, I do not hold with any of the rest of Penn's theories about the Zodiac murders. (And I'm sorry that you didn't like the graphics!)

Curt Rowlett

Penn-istic meaning centered almost entirely on the interpretation of the case through an understanding of the letters and code, and goofy meaning I felt the background graphics detract from the site's visual presentation.

Ordinarily, I would be turning handsprings that you are here and seem to be happy to be so, however, I fear I may have offended you which was not my intention. I am not sure why I put the word reputable in quotes, I don't believe I was calling you or your into question.

In my defense, I don't believe I was negative, and my queries were completely innocent. I was in fact, asking for more information.

I was indoctrinated into this case via Times17, and although I understand that Penn has been dismissed by the mainstream of this community, I still hold a place for him in my heart as the first one who understood that the Zodiac wasn't as initial primitive profilers would have us believe, a sub-literate pervert, but at the very least, conscious author of a larger whole. I also held fast to the belief that if this case is to be cracked, it would be the proper analysis of the letters and codes that would provide the breakthrough. I do not hold that belief any longer, as I believe the re-application of good investigative technique may yet yield new evidence and direction in the case.

Again, I apologize if my characterizations of your site or work offended you, as this was not my intention.

[Curt Rowlett Profile]

Ordinarily, I would be turning handsprings that you are here and seem to be happy to be so, however, I fear I may have offended you which was not my intention. I am not sure why I put the word reputable in quotes, I don't believe I was calling you or your into question.

In my defense, I don't believe I was negative, and my queries were completely innocent. I was in fact, asking for more information.

Absolutely no apologies are necessary, mainly because I took no offense whatsoever at what you wrote.

I read your words as those of someone with a genuine interest, but as being from a person who had no idea who I am or what my book is all about. That is only natural.

So, no worries, no need at all to apologize, and I'm happy to be here.

Curt

[Curt Rowlett Profile]

Curt, the Labyrinth13 site is yours too? I love the Betsy Aardsma case on your site. I have looked into that case, and there are some cool paralells between her deat hand Cheri Jo Bates. The fact that she was killed in the library, she was wearing a red dress, and the fact the campus received an anonymous letter years later regarding her murder.

I love the sound effects on the site-SPOOKY!

Kudos on a great site, and I urge everyone to take a look!

Yes, the Labyrinth13 site is mine, too.

The case of Betsy Aardsma really intrigued me when I first read about it. While I agree that the case does somewhat eerily parallel that of Cheri Jo Bates, I've never seen any soild evidence of any Zodiac involvement; maybe some deeper digging might lead someplace?

But, what really creeped me out about the Aardsma case is the fact that the killer actually came back on the 30th anniversary of her murder to leave such a macabre shrine to her death.

Oh, and thanks for the kudos!

[MikeM Profile]

Penn-istic meaning centered almost entirely on the interpretation of the case through an understanding of the letters and code, and goofy meaning I felt the background graphics detract from the site's visual presentation.

I was indoctrinated into this case via Times17, and although I understand that Penn has been dismissed by the mainstream of this community, I still hold a place for him in my heart as the first one who understood that the Zodiac wasn't as initial primitive profilers would have us believe, a sub-literate pervert, but at the very least, conscious author of a larger whole.

What an excellent point you've made here, Metal. Penn -- with Times 17 and his larger-than-life approach -- drove the initial debate about Zodiac, and continues to prejudice the case today. It was 12 years dead when he resurrected it, giving it much of the form and shape it has now.

It was Penn who first popularized the notion that the Zodiac killer was a criminal genius with an artistic schema.

It was Penn who first popularized the notion that the solutions to the ciphers, riddles, and codes would REALLY lead to the killer's identity if enough obsessive attention was paid to them, and that they weren't simply part of some grand hoax.

To prove himself, Penn was the first person to craft a scientifically-plausible scheme behind the killings -- the Radian theory. So plausible, in fact, that Kim Rossmo uses the theory in detail in his geo-profiling report, but without crediting Penn! (If you haven't seen this yet, you should).

It was Penn who first publicly named a suspect in the case, preceding Robert Graysmith by six years and all the kooks out there today by nearly three decades. To this day, Penn's living, breathing suspect remains the most fascinating (if implausible) of them all.

Curt Rowlettt, Jake Wark, Alan Cabal, and a cryptologist well-known in his own ranks but little known beyond the arcane world of cryptology -- Glen Claston -- took Penn seriously enough to investigate his claims, many of which remain shrouded in questions to this day. If it ever turns out that he (or O'Hare) had anything at all to do with these crimes, they will be the people rightly recognized for paying attention so early.

Regardless, Gareth Penn constructed much of the Zodiac dialogue. By popularizing the notion of the Zodiac killer as criminal mastermind, he imbued the case with the grand challenge that drives it today: Catch the Zodiac killer, and you will be hailed a criminological genius.

[Bullitt Profile]

I don't think there's much doubt that Z was a criminal mastermind... to an extent. A mastermind in the sense that he has gotten away with it, but he was actually far more lucky, incompetent and sloppy/disorganized (look at PH as a prime example of this) than anything else. Oh, there was planning etc, but if Paul Holes is correct, then Z's murder of Stine was sloppy in that the cab rolled and Z had to jump behind the wheel, then eliminate prints he hadn't planned on leaving in a hurry and escape before being caught. Certainly there was some amount of organization in the planning, but the execution of the crime was pretty sloppy and disorganized.