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The PATRICIA HAUTZ letter

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Gavrilo Princip

Re: The PATRICIA HAUTZ letter

Postby Gavrilo Princip » Mon Dec 14, 2009 10:54 am

As I recall, this matter was discussed in some detail on Bystander, and it was revealed that a Patricia Hautz did exist, she was a "fellow student" albeit not at the same school as CJB. I do not believe someone has contacted her...but I think it's a safe bet she wrote the letter.

Correct me if I'm mistaken.

Bently

Re: The PATRICIA HAUTZ letter

Postby Bently » Mon Dec 14, 2009 12:05 pm

As I recall Chris and possibly one other notable researcher did attempt contact and her relatives refused to let her talk to them.

Gavrilo Princip

Re: The PATRICIA HAUTZ letter

Postby Gavrilo Princip » Mon Dec 14, 2009 12:59 pm

morf13 wrote:
Menecrates wrote:This letter has only entered Z consciousness because of how one researcher perceived it.


This letter was received by the newspaper. They were aware of the letters already received in the Bates case, and due to the cold and insensitive nature of the Patricia Hautz letter, and the fact it was received close to the anniversary of Cheri's murder, they were suspicious and turned it over to police. Police couldnt ID a woman by that name.

Some people assume that the woman with the middle name Patricia wrote that letter, but in fact, there WERE other women with that name.


Morf, Menecrates is saying the same thing I told you months ago over on Bystander. You persistently opt to accept all non-likely explanations and far reaching "possibilities". Numquam ponenda est pluralitas sine necessitate...do not further complicate matters, unless it is required.

Here the two options are:

1) A woman by that name, who lives (and lived) in the are, who was also a student at the time wrote the letter.
2) A serial killer (ether by happenstance or design) co-opted the use of the name and signed it from a fellow student. Also note, you propose it to be the Zodiac whom has never used a real name as a pseudonym.

Which one is the "stretch"?

akwilks

Re: The PATRICIA HAUTZ letter

Postby akwilks » Mon Dec 14, 2009 3:15 pm

I think of the Patricia Hautz thing as being likely in the same boat as the Phil Sins thing. It seems it was a "Phil Sins" who sent letters to police with a general delivery return adress from different towns, giving tips on the possible Z connection to Riverside and the Bates murder. There is a real Phillip Sins who lives not too far from Riverside today, though we don't know where he lived in the time period, and there is no evidence he was (or wasn't) the man who tipped off police. I think "Phil Sins" and "Patricia Hautz" were likely fake names used by Zodiac, but that is as much my gut instinct as anything. I thought since Hautz has a "z", the least used letter in the English langauge, it might be a game by the Z man. Also the failure to identify a Patricia Hautz who was a fellow student of Bates at Riverside. I don't find the presence of a Mary P. Hautz who was not a Riverside student to be very convincing - others do apparently.

You can indeed get his name, and hundreds of others, out of the strangely worded sign off. The fact that the writer seeks sympathy and understanding for a brutal killer, and indirectly seeks to blame the killers family and upbringing for his crimes, is another thing that made we think it could be Z.

With Hope
Patricia Hautz
Fellow Student

akwilks

Re: The PATRICIA HAUTZ letter

Postby akwilks » Mon Dec 14, 2009 3:24 pm

This may illustrate better the POSSIBLE intentional appearance of Zodiac in the odd sign off:

WITH HOPE
PATRICIA HAUTZ
FELLOW STUDENT

Gavrilo Princip

Re: The PATRICIA HAUTZ letter

Postby Gavrilo Princip » Mon Dec 14, 2009 7:45 pm

Menecrates wrote:AK, do you seriously think this constitutes evidence?


Don't get him started, by the time he finishes it Patricia Hautz will certainly be Theodore K.

akwilks

Re: The PATRICIA HAUTZ letter

Postby akwilks » Mon Dec 14, 2009 8:23 pm

Is it evidence? No. I thought it was an interesting observation.

" I'm telling you now, there was a young lady in that time frame who called herself Mary Hautz on a regular basis. "

I know there was a Mary P. Hautz who lived nearby. I am sure there are many people with similar names. I have yet to see a shred of evidence that this Mary P Hautz wrote this letter that was so concerned about a killer.

It is an obervation for discussion and debate. Why people get so angry, I don't understand. :think:
Last edited by akwilks on Mon Dec 14, 2009 8:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

akwilks

Re: The PATRICIA HAUTZ letter

Postby akwilks » Mon Dec 14, 2009 8:27 pm

What I see in the Hautz, Sins and Aroused letters are things that don't seem like they came from real people. Concern about a killer, almost challenging a victims brother to a fight, going to different cities to give police clues. And 40 years later none of these can be conclusively linked to a real person. Maybe all are real, or some, or none. Given Zodiac's known habit of using fake names "A friend", "Citizen", "The Red Phantom" - it seems reasonable to me to at least examine the issue of Zodiac POSSIBLY writing these letters, thats all.

The anagram thing is, to me, fun and interesting, and within the realm of something that might appeal to Z, IMO.

akwilks

Re: The PATRICIA HAUTZ letter

Postby akwilks » Mon Dec 14, 2009 8:51 pm

I already did. :smile:

I don't mind criticism, sometimes it just seems that if you even raise something as a possibility, several people don't just criticize, but make sarcastic comments.

IMO we can have a better, more interesting board, still with strong debate, and not have the sarcasm and attacks.

But that is just a suggestion. Not saying I am perfect either.

akwilks

Re: The PATRICIA HAUTZ letter

Postby akwilks » Mon Dec 14, 2009 9:03 pm

OK, we look at things differently. I hardly think I am (or Morf is) trying to connect "all" things to Zodiac. This is an odd letter, expressing concern not for the victim of a brutal killing, but for the killer. Nobody has ever been conclusivley identified as the real author. It seems reasonable to me to at least ask is it possible it was written by the killer?

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