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Bryan Hartnell

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Bryan Hartnell

Postby speedy1 » Mon Jul 05, 2010 5:18 pm

It's no secret BH has changed his story several times about what took place at Lake Berryessa. I find his general version of events very hard to believe, mainly due to the 'hero' status he has given himself by the way he spoke to Z that night. Other than maybe Rambo, I can't think of anyone who would show such disrespect and sarcasm to a weapon-wielding stranger in that situation. This leads me to believe either he is full of #### , or he was aware who he was speaking to.

Also, why on earth would Z strike up such a conversation. He never did previously ( according to other accounts and timelines) and if anything was less nervous than he would've been 12 mths earlier. Why make up some elaborate story when you're used to just walking up and getting on with things?

I would love to get a few whiskey's into BH and find out what happened once and for all...

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Re: Bryan Hartnell

Postby Michael Butterfield » Mon Jul 05, 2010 5:38 pm

Harntell changed his story several times? You think he's hiding something?

That's the biggest load of mule fritters I've heard in a while.

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Re: Bryan Hartnell

Postby Zsearcher » Mon Jul 05, 2010 6:21 pm

The last person to bring up that crappy idea was Baba. I told him what I'm going to tell you speedy.

That's the most ridiculous thing I ever heard.

After Bryan was stabbed he crawled for help for a half hour. When help arrived he told the rescuer to go help Cecelia first because she was hurt much worse than he was.

Bryan Hartnell is a hero.

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Re: Bryan Hartnell

Postby speedy1 » Mon Jul 05, 2010 9:47 pm

Ok... obviously i'm the only one who has a problem with BH. That's ok, that's why we're here- to throw ideas around. I'm not saying i think he was involved in any way, just that i don't necessarily believe everything that's come out of his mouth regarding the night in question.

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Re: Bryan Hartnell

Postby Michael Butterfield » Mon Jul 05, 2010 9:57 pm

Speedy, if you're still having ANY problem with ANYTHING Hartnell has said, let alone doubts about his honesty, you need to do less posting and theorizing and do a lot more reading. No offense.

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Re: Bryan Hartnell

Postby speedy1 » Mon Jul 05, 2010 10:59 pm

None taken...

So I ignore the inconsistencies in his various statements because he claims someone else made them??

Montana or Colorado? - Don't even sound similar..
Just started stabbing or I asked him to stab me first?
I noticed his hands were shaking, but don't know if he was wearing gloves or not?

Is my name in the paper? - He's apparently worried about his girlfriend finding out the wrong way....What was he doing down there with Cecelia then?

Has he ever stated what it was she wanted to talk to him about in the first place??

Maybe BH is the greatest man ever to walk the earth. I don't know. But he deserves the same scrutiny as anyone else who is the only living victim from a crime scene, especially when his testimony could send the investigation in a completely different direction if he's not spot on about what took place..

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Re: Bryan Hartnell

Postby Zsearcher » Mon Jul 05, 2010 11:26 pm

Speedy, you need to go read more. He said Colorado. Later his police interviewer suggested Montana and Hartnell agreed most likely because he was too weak to argue about it. As I said, read some more.

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Re: Bryan Hartnell

Postby Michael Butterfield » Tue Jul 06, 2010 1:00 am

No one knows exactly what the Zodiac said to Hartnell and Shepard that day. Ranger White was the one who said that Hartnell mentioned Colorado. Perhaps while Hartnell was bleeding profusely and suffering from the beginning symptoms of anoxia he may have been mistaken in his recall. Most people who think that they are dying, shivering in the cold, watching their own blood leave their body and watching a woman they cared about bleeding to death in agony might have difficulty staying focused on the questions from a stranger. I think it’s clear that both Bryan and Cecelia did the best they could under the circumstances.

While still recovering in the hospital and under the influence of medication, Hartnell recalled that the man said he had escaped from “some prison in Montana.” Bryan struggled to recall the name and mentioned “feathers,” and “fern,” and “fern lock.” He said, “It’s some double name, like Fern Lock or something.” Robertson responded, “It’s Lodge...Mountain Lodge Prison.” Ken Narlow said that he wished we could “unring the bell,” but that’s how it happened.

I asked Bryan Hartnell about the “stab me first” quote which even Ken Narlow thought sounded rather “cavalier.” Hartnell adamantly denied that he had ever said this to the Zodiac. He said that he may have said something to White like, “I’m glad he stabbed me first because I couldn’t stand to see her hurt,” or something similar. Hartnell said that he may also have mused, aloud, what the killer may have been thinking, i.e., “I guess I have to stab you people.” Hartnell has an odd way of speaking sometimes in which he jumps from one point of view to the other, changes tenses, and sometimes does not complete a sentence or thought as soon as he has another idea. Some of these issues are obvious in the transcript of his interview with Hartnell and I am not the only person to make this observation.

Hartnell’s seeming inability to recall whether or not the man was wearing gloves may seem strange to you, but many crime victims are often unable to report other significant details because they often remain focused on the weapon pointed in their face. Bryan recalled that he was preoccupied with the idea of getting the gun away from the man, as most any man would want to do in that situation. We all like to believe that we would just remember anything we wish to recall, but I think that the very fact that Hartnell makes a distinction, saying he can’t recall specifically, is evidence of his honesty and candor.

Speedy, your premise is bogus from the start. Ken Narlow and others investigated possible prison escapees in both Colorado and Montana, so Hartnell’s alleged confusion on this issue did not obstruct or impede the investigation in any way. Investigators searched for fingerprint evidence, so the inability to remember gloves did not hamper the investigation. Whether the Zodiac announced his intention to stab the victims is largely irrelevant save for a discussion of the killer’s state of mind. Hartnell himself said that he didn’t ask to be stabbed first, his own written account and his interviews do not contain this scenario, and most people would agree that such bravery is beyond most mortals. Contrary to portraying himself as a hero, Hartnell has been very honest in portraying himself as a human being. A man who wanted to dodge the truth and paint himself as a hero would say, “Yes, I did ask to be stabbed first,” and more, but Hartnell has consistently downplayed his own actions. He also has shown that he feels some degree of guilt for being there that day, as this tragedy may not have happened if the two were not together and at the lake. Any man, especially one with a girlfriend, would feel some degree of guilt and responsibility in that situation.

In all honesty, speedy, I think your argument is rather strange. Someone might get the idea that you were simply here splitting this hair just to bump another thread from view on the board. Who knows. Regardless, I don’t think this issue is really worthy of further comment. This entire discussion is simply too much like “babbling baba” territory, and suggesting that Hartnell was involved, that he set up Cecelia, or that the killer meant to let Hartnell live. Again, with all due respect, you’re entitled to your opinions, but I think this thread is just another example of the kind of nonsense which continues to plague this case.

FOR NAPA COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE
-DIALOGUE BETWEEN AN UNKNOWN ASSAILANT AND BRYAN HARTNELL ( and Cecelia Shepard )

C: What do you want?
A: Now take it easy– all I want’s your money. There is nothing to worry about– all I want is your money.
B: O.K.– whatever you say, I want you to know that I will cooperate so you don’t have to worry - whatever you say we'll do. Do you want us to come up with our hands up or down?
A: Just don't make any fast moves– come up slowly.
B: But we don’t have any money - all I have is 75 cents.
A: That doesn’t matter– every little bit helps ( pause )– I’m on my way to Mexico– I escaped from Deer Lodge Prison in Montana, Deer Lodge. I need some money to get there.
B: You’re welcome to the money I have, but isn’t there something else I can do for you? Give you a check or get some more?
A: No.
B: I can give you my phone number and you can call me.
A: ( no reply )
B: I want to get in contact with you. I am a sociology major and maybe I can even offer you more help than you think you need.
A: No.
B: Well, is there any other thing you need?
A: Yes. One more thing– I want your car keys. My car is hot.
B: (Reaching into pockets, then patting his first front then back pockets) I guess in all the excitement I don’t remember where I put them. Let’s see. Are they in my shirt, in the ignition, on the blanket... Say! Would you answer a question for me? I’ve always wondered. On TV movies and in an article in the Reader’s Digest they say that thieves really keep their guns loaded?
A: ( excited slightly ) Yes, it is! ( then calmed and matter-of-fact ) I killed a couple of men before.
B: What? I didn't hear you...
A: I killed a couple of guards getting out of prison. And I’m not afraid to kill again.
C: Bryan– do what he says!
A: Now I want the girl to tie you up.
[A]: (reaches for rope that he pulls from back pocket)
B: This is really strange. I wonder why someone hasn’t thought of this before. I’ll bet there’s good money in it.
A: ( no reply )
B: What was the name of that prison?
A: ( no reply )
B: No really, what did you say the name of it was? I’m just curious.
A: ( begrudgingly ) Deer Lodge in Montana.
( There must have been some dialogue at this point but I can’t remember any until we are both tied up. )
A: Now I want you both to lay face down so I can tie up your feet.
B: Come on– we could be out here for a long time and it could get cold at night.
A: Come on– get down!
B: Listen, I didn’t complain when you tied our hands, but this is ridiculous...
A: I told you...
B: We aren’t going anywhere– Anyway, I don't think that it’s necessary ( or - Aw, come on, we don’t want to. )
A: ( pointing gun directly at me at point blank range ) I told you to get down!
B: Your hands are shaking? Are you nervous?
A: Yes, I guess so. ( laughs in a very relaxed manner )
B: Well, I guess that I’d be nervous, too.
( Then after we were tied and hog-tied )
B: Now that everything is all said and done, could you show me that your gun is loaded? (Or, and probably this: “Now that all is said and done, was that gun really loaded?”)
A: Yes, it was! ( or ) Sure, I'll show you. ( He then opened cartridge or whatever )
(That was the last thing I remember him saying.)

( signed ) BRYAN HARTNELL

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Re: Bryan Hartnell

Postby Zsearcher » Tue Jul 06, 2010 1:19 am

Sorry for the confusion. I was thinking of Deer Lodge Montana which was pieced together from snippets of info, but I forgot that Bryan did mention Montana once. Thanks for the clarification Mike.

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Re: Bryan Hartnell

Postby speedy1 » Tue Jul 06, 2010 1:26 am

Firstly, I have no idea who 'baba' is- I'm guessing it was someone who dribbled alot.

Secondly, nothing you said in that essay explained anything whatsoever. I never said I thought BH was involved,in fact I said the contrary. I don't think he was left alive on purpose or any other conspiracy theory rubbish along those lines. And I don't just speak because I'm bored.

I do however, investigate EVERYONE when trying to put the pieces of a puzzle together. I don't doubt that you are more familiar with Z than myself, but I've been researching serial killers and complete wacko's for many many years and no matter what case you look at, the rules are the same...

Maybe if I learn more about BH I might understand where your coming from. I just thought it was worth exploring a little. That's all.

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