The Fingerprints

[Esau Profile]

I remember reading that there were BLOODY fingerprints left on Stine's cab. I noticed on the color pictures that all of the prints were black powder. Was this "bloody fingerprint" information another one of Graysmith's uses of "license" or am I missing something here?

[Michael Butterfield Profile]

This issue has been incredibly clouded by less-than-ethical theorists who are desperate to make this evidence go away.

The police found fingerprints on the outside of the cab on the post between the driver's door and the back door. These were not "bloody fingerprints" but, rather, fingerprints which showed traces of blood. I have spoken to one expert who worked with these prints during the original investigation and another who had recently examined the prints in question. Both stated that the prints were not "bloody" but showed traces of blood-- specifically, there was some blood which had worked its way into the ridges and swirls in the otherwise latent print. This means that the print was made by a living human hand and was formed in the body oils released by the skin of the finger, but some blood which was most likely on the killer's hand ran into some of those ridges and swirls, forming a mixed print-- meaning, a latent fingerprint which shows traces of blood.

The odds and the evidence overwhelming demonstrate that these prints were left by the person who killed Paul Stine and no one else. The only questions are:

1) Are these fingerprints of sufficient quality to identify, or even exclude, a suspect?
2) Are these fingerprints of sufficient quality to be used as evidence in court to positively identify the Zodiac?

The answer to #2 appears to be no. The answer to #1 appears to be yes, this print may be used to identify or exclude someone, or, at the very least, can exclude someone. Police used these fingerprints to exclude thousands of suspects, a clear indication that police had confidence in this evidence. SFPD Inspectors David Toschi and Bill Armstrong both stated that these prints would identify the killer (and said so long after they had both abandoned Arthur Leigh Allen as a suspect). The police reports, FBI documents and more all confirm this as well.

The SFPD memo regarding these prints can be viewed in the Zodiackillerfacts.com Document Gallery HERE.

[smithy Profile]

This issue has been incredibly clouded by less-than-ethical theorists who are desperate to make this evidence go away.

I'm not one of them.

I've got a dumb question though. I always seem to. I'm not challenging the existence of these prints, or their validity but since I still can't get any kind of mental picture of where Z was sitting when he shot Paul Stine, or his route out of the cab, his actions in respect to the swatch of shirt, or what he touched last, I have to ask - where are those prints?

The photographs make it look like they are at the trailing edge of the drivers door, rather than on the mid-post, and so does the description (easier seen in this photo - where it looks like the word DOOR is obscured).

BTW I also have to believe the report is in error, when it says "The latent prints from the right front door handle...... These prints are circled with a red pen" - since the prints circled in red in that picture are indeed those from the trailing edge of the drivers door - the ones we're talking about - "O.S rear post of L/F door" (off-side rear post of the left front door).
No?

In respect to

1) Are these fingerprints of sufficient quality to identify, or even exclude, a suspect?
2) Are these fingerprints of sufficient quality to be used as evidence in court to positively identify the Zodiac?

- I would hope that the answers to both is yes. But I acknowledge that is just a hope.

[Zabagliona Profile]

The problem, I think is that while the prints may be decent enough to make a "working match", whether they would hold up in court at this point is dubious....There are all kinds of wacked-out "chain of custody" issues with Z-related evidence...

Thus, while a FFE or tech may get a "hit" from these prints on AFIS, the question then becomes whether a defense attorney would be able to tear the chain of custody to shreds, which, sadly they probably would...

...e.g., asking questions about how the car door was stored, who had access to it, were people wearing gloves every time they handled it, and on and on...

[Lucifer's Angel Profile]

I seriously doubt any defense attorney would be able to cook up an explanation as to how the defendant, if innocent, had his prints turn up on, say, the Zodiac letters.

[FoolsGold Profile]

I seriously doubt any defense attorney would be able to cook up an explanation as to how the defendant, if innocent, had his prints turn up on, say, the Zodiac letters.

The phrase 'caught red-handed' actually, IIRC, refers to suspects caught with the murder victim's blood on their hands. So it would be even more a burden for a defense attorney to explain how the defendant's prints manifested on the surface of the victim's cab, in the victim's blood.

[smithy Profile]

Interesting you guys are focussing on the worth of the prints as evidence while I'm still plugging away at where they are. You're obviously more optimistic they'll be used in court than I am at this point!
I hope you're right.

[Zabagliona Profile]

I'm not disagreeing with either of you from a "common sense" point of view, I'm just explaining how the "chain of custody" questioning would go...and that LEGALLY they would have a harder time with this than you might think...

[Yanomamo Profile]

Forgive if this has been covered before: have the prints at the Stine scene been cross-checked against prints lifted from the mailings? If so, results? Anyone know outside of LE?

[Sam Profile Website]

Have you seen the PERT chart? It follows that the killer sat in the front of the cabbie, which is a little unusual (if it wasn't full) isn't it? Paul's sister said that he let some passengers to sit in the front, but only those whom he knew.